Hello, and welcome back to The Trunk Show, brought to you by RW Elephant, mighty inventory management software designed to help you conquer the chaos in your event rental business and reclaim your creativity because the world needs more of the beautiful events and environments you create.
We’re closing out Season Four with a lovely guest who will be familiar to those of you who attended Lend & Gather in Nashville. I had the pleasure of chatting with Melinda Perry of M2 Exteriors live on stage about her unconventional journey into exterior design. Although Melinda doesn’t run a boutique event rental business, she does have plenty of insight into the value of creating beautiful spaces for connection. You’ll see a glimpse of your own story in hers, and you’ll hear how she’s discovered peace amidst challenges and triumphs in her creative business.
Melinda Perry: Well, my name is Melinda Perry. My business is M2 Exteriors, standing for Melinda and my partner Margaret. And we do design and build for all things outside, exteriors.
Allison Howell: Where are you from originally?
Melinda Perry: I’m from Southern California. We moved here from Newport Beach 20 years ago. So we feel like locals now.
Allison Howell: What, what brought you to Tennessee originally?
Melinda Perry: I think we were ready to get out of California and we had a couple of friends that lived here and our daughter was just going into junior high so we felt like now is the time to go if we were ever going to move someplace else so we just packed up and moved and sold in California the highest and bought here at the lowest so we’re very grateful for all things that happened here. Went from a little teeny beach condo to five acres. So happy to be here.
Allison Howell: Yeah, big change. So why did you start messing around in the garden when you got out here?
Melinda Perry: I just love being in the land. My daughter was kind of going through a hard time. I wanted to be outside. So she kind of put a bed down beside me. And I just started working with my hands in the dirt. And I knew that it was somehow healing. And it was my therapy.
Allison Howell: Then from there, you kind of started gardening on your own, and then you got involved in a master gardening program, right?
Melinda Perry: Right. I realized how much I didn’t know. In California, everything grows. There’s just no dormant period like there was here. And when the dormant period happened here, I thought everything died. So I pulled everything up and didn’t know about perennials. So I realized how much I did not know and how expensive it was to pull everything up. And so my neighbor and I took the master garden program. In it, you have to do a certain amount of civic free jobs. We did the entrance to our community.
Allison Howell: Okay, and so at that point gardening was just a hobby and you were then serving your community on the side here as a master gardener?
Melinda Perry: Right.
Allison Howell: So, at what point did you think, oh, this could turn into a business?
Melinda Perry: The only person we really knew here was, my husband played football at USC and his roommate in college was a football coach for the Titans. And he knew I’d gone through it, he knew I loved this, so he asked me to design a little hunting cabin. He said, can you plant a few flowers for me? So, I did a little bit more than a few flowers. Turned into a really big project and it was just so, so much fun that once I did this, people started knowing about it and us and it just grew from there. But slowly, not really aggressively, but just slowly.
Allison Howell: And so, it was just one job at a time after that.
Melinda Perry: It was a couple at a time. I would do one job and then two people would find out about me, I’d get two more jobs. It just has grown on its own. I really knew nothing. I just had an intuitive sense of design, which maybe some of you have as well.
Allison Howell: So, what happened next? You did that first job. You started getting some other jobs on the side. You knew you had this sense for design. And so, then where did you go from there? You just kind of kept taking on jobs?
Melinda Perry: Well, during COVID, my business exploded because everyone wanted to be outside. So, they wanted to do bigger projects. It blew up in 2020.
Allison Howell: So that’s when you started bringing on more people onto your firm.
Melinda Perry: It was, and that’s when I realized I needed more education. I’m just kind of grappling at design. I wasn’t really sure. I knew I was doing an okay job, but I wasn’t really trained and I wanted to learn the rules. So, I started at that time at the College of Design in Oxford, England. And I met a gal there who, who I started working with and we started doing projects together.
Allison Howell: And so how did you end up in Oxford? What made you decide, “oh, this is a program for me, and this is the kind of education I need?” Because I think some of us get into this point where we’re doing design. You obviously had a successful business. But what made you decide, I need more?
Melinda Perry: If you’ve ever been to England, you know their gardens are incredibly beautiful. So that’s where I wanted to learn. It just happened the first day of the class, I met this amazing gal and she was a great designer. So, she and I work together on plans here. I help her with her plans in England and she helps me with mine. She’s amazing so it’s a great collaboration.
Allison Howell: But still, I’m so interested in even the point of deciding like that you need more education. I mean, for me, sometimes I think, “oh, you know, I want to be better at this thing,” but I don’t usually think, “oh, I should go back to school.” I either keep doing it over and over or I think, “well, I’m just not going to be as good at that as I want to be.” So, what was the catalyst to actually get you to actually go back to school, especially once you already had a successful business?
Melinda Perry: I just love to learn; I’m just a student at heart. And so even this last month, I had a client that he said I want to rewild my whole property. And he had about two acres, it’s in a really nice part of town and big, huge, massive front yard and you’re not supposed to have grass like over two inches. So, it was like a challenge to me of how I can rewild, I don’t know if you ever heard of that, but it’s go natural front and backyard. So, I took another class on, it’s called new naturalism of how to design yards without big front yards.
Allison Howell: Yeah, it seems like it takes a lot of humility to have that stance, to be able to say, “oh, I don’t know this, and so I’m going to go and get that education.”
Melinda Perry: I have everything to be humble about. I started it when I was 54, knew nothing. And it’s been going gang busters. So, every day I think, I can’t wait till Monday. So, I hope some of you are like that as well with your business. I mean, it certainly is plenty of challenges. But on the whole, it’s so rewarding.
Allison Howell: Well, tell us about some of those challenges. I know over the years you’ve had larger teams and smaller teams and sometimes you’ve had equipment and been in smaller circumstances and you’ve got certifications and all sorts of things. So, tell us about some of the challenges along the way and how you faced some of those.
Melinda Perry: I did get quite a bit of equipment in terms of big skid steers and all that kind of stuff. It became my own contractor, and so that was something fun. And then at some point, I’m thinking maybe I need to grow the business, I’m supposed to scale it, but then you bring in more people, you get more headaches…
Allison Howell: None of us here understand that.
Melinda Perry: And I’m not sure if the bottom line gets all that better. You just add more zeros and the profit line wasn’t all that better for me, but there were a lot more headaches with having more people. But you all need a lot more staff than I need, I’m sure.
Allison Howell: Before, you mentioned also that, kind of in the process of growing into a larger team, you recognized you got further and further away from the actual design process.
Melinda Perry: Right, right.
Allison Howell: So, kind of in that process, you recognized, “oh, I don’t get to do the design part as much as I want to.”
Melinda Perry: Right, and further away from the clients, too. Although the clients can be hard. That can be some of the hardest part. But as I’ve grown in the business for 14 years, I can spot them pretty quick now of who’s going to be a trouble client, and I just won’t take them now. It’s just not worth the trouble.
Allison Howell: Okay, well tell us how you do that. If you see a problem client coming, what’s a strategy you use to say, do you just say you’re not available?
Melinda Perry: Yes.
Allison Howell: Great.
Melinda Perry: You know, we learn from our mistakes and I sure have learned from mine and I probably didn’t educate them well enough. I had one client from California, very affluent city in California, which had flowers all year round and she, this was her second home in Nashville. And she wanted peonies and azaleas and all kinds of stuff, blooming all year long. So, she comes in here December to spend Christmas here and there were no peonies, there were no flowers. And she just was so angry with me. And she wouldn’t pay me like $10 grand. I should have done a better job at educating her of what grows and what doesn’t grow. But I’m sure she learned in the spring that it all came back. So, you know, that was my problem of not communicating and educating her.
And then another problem is some clients just kind of disregard my laborers. They’re just disrespectful and I won’t put up with that.
Allison Howell: We were talking earlier in the session with Shani, she said one of the things she pays attention to is how her colleagues treat servers in a restaurant. And that tells her so much, it seems like that’s a real sticking point for you as well, that how your clients treat your staff is a really big deal.
Melinda Perry: That’s a huge deal.
Allison Howell: An indication of the kind of person they are.
Melinda Perry: Yeah, because my guys, they’re so much smarter than me in what they do, and so I respect them and so I expect other people to. At first, they think, oh, they’re just laborers, but they don’t know. They’ve been in the business 30 years and could run rings around people. So yeah, that’s like a non-negotiable.
Allison Howell: So how did you find this fabulous team of experts?
Melinda Perry: Well, one of the first jobs I did on the farm was I found the best worker. He started working with me on weekends because he wanted to work a lot. So he was working for this big company on the weekends, and then eventually I was paying him so much more than what he was making. He was just making nothing for the other people and I just kept paying him more and more and drew him away.
So, he’s like family to me now. He’s like a son to me. So, that’s been a side benefit to really care for him. His two brothers work for me as well. That’s a bonus. And I never thought of growing this business and it has just grown and my intention is to grow it and give it to him. So that will come one day.
I just turned 68 and so I thought, “well, I don’t want to be outside in the cold in winter forever.” But I can design forever inside on the computer or drawing. And so, and he needs me. So, it’s a good, it’s a good team effort, which I can do for as long as I want.
Allison Howell: What do you do in your sales process to kind of help you decide if somebody is that ideal client, if they’re going to treat your staff well, if they’re going to be a good fit for you? How do you decide that? Is it just a gut feeling you have, or is it particular questions you ask? How do you make sure you’re attracting that right person?
Melinda Perry: I would say it’s more intuitive, and then sometimes it’s just downright, are they going to pay me? I mean, do they look like they’re going to write a check? It’s do I think they’re going to pay me or drag me along or are they just good people that are going to keep their word and be kind? Don’t you think you know that intuitively with most people?
Allison Howell: I think we learn that lesson along the way sometimes. Have you ever had to fire a client?
Melinda Perry: Yes.
Allison Howell: What happened?
Melinda Perry: Well, it really started with him disrespecting one of my guys, well, two of my guys, my whole team. And they just told me, we can’t work with this guy anymore. And he was hiring me for another big position. And he’s really a top contractor in town, and he had flowed a lot of income to me. I was contemplating, this is the big inflow of money to me. Am I willing to give it up? And so I did. “I just can’t work for you anymore.”
And it turned out good. He came back to me and he said, “can you tell me why it is you wouldn’t hire me again?” So I told him, I said, you know, “it’s not anything that you said to the guys. It was fine if anything that you wanted to correct the guys that you said. It wasn’t anything you said, it was how you said it. So I just expect that people would say things in a kind way,” and he said, “well, I really respect you for telling me that.” So hopefully he’s changed. Although he’s lost a couple other guys since, so. But maybe he will take it to heart.
Allison Howell: It seems like you are living your life with intention and running your business with a lot of intention. One of the things that I was really struck by was on your website, you have a quote from Andrew Peterson that says,
“We need more than just houses. We need homes. We need Places with a capital P, places that honor the community’s history, the sacredness of creation and our basic human need for beauty and nature.”
And that really resonates with me and I think a lot of people here who create beautiful spaces for a living, places where they want people to come together and dwell and connect with one another. Why do you think we need beautiful spaces to do that in? Why do you create beautiful spaces in your life? Why do you think that’s part of your calling?
Melinda Perry: Don’t you think the world is so hostile? And every place is hostile. And even in our families. We want to even take Thanksgiving back from being hard. And one thing that can do that is nature. And if we can create spaces that are comfortable and easy for each other to communicate with each other and have the desire to come together is so important. We just live in kind of concrete jungles and the more we can be in nature and create beauty, the more we can set the stage is all what you guys do for amazing conversations to happen, relationships to be healed, this beauty to happen on the inside as well as the outside.
Allison Howell: I like that vision of the world. I think that’s sometimes hard to do when you walk into a space that may be an empty field or five acres or two acres of someone wanting to rewild it. How do you decide what to do when you see a blank canvas like that? A lot of people in this room kind of go to a blank canvas and are thinking, “how do I create a temporary space or a space that we’re going to have for a short period of time?” You’re trying to do something similar, but for a longer period of time, but sometimes the thing that you create doesn’t come to fruition right away. So, tell us some of the design principles you’re kind of thinking about, or the ideas you’re thinking about when you walk into a space.
Melinda Perry: I try to get as much information out as a client as I can. What are their five senses? If they walk into a space, what does it feel like, smell like, look like? What does the end game look like for them? And so I try to pull out from them as much as I can and then get the final vision. I work backwards, as I’m sure you all do, to see it from the other place. There’s an artist agent in town and he’s hired me to do a Japanese or an Asian garden because I’m sure he’s so stressed that he likes to come back to a Zen garden. So that’s a new challenge for me because I’ve never done that, but it’s super fun. So, it just really depends client to client. Each one is different and I want to get into their heads and get into their vibes and figure out what they want.
Allison Howell: I want to get a little personal now. I feel like being an entrepreneur is a very refining experience. I touched on it earlier with you going back to school. I feel like I’m learning new things about myself all the time as an entrepreneur, and I’m constantly recognizing ways that I want to grow. What are some things that you feel like you’ve recognized in yourself that you’ve wanted to grow in as a result of owning this business?
Melinda Perry: Well, I am a praying person, so I speak from the heart. That’s my DNA, and I like to live at the end of myself. I think when we come to the end of ourselves, that’s when we see the magic happen, because we are no longer in control. And that’s when God comes in and does things that you just can’t even imagine. And I think that’s what happened in this business.
It was hard when we first moved here. The first three years was really hard and I read a quote from Dorothy Sayers that said, “It’s time to put down your sword and pick up your paintbrush.” I understood that my paintbrush was with plants and stones and different materials than what you all use. but it was a paintbrush. But it was the end of all that I could do and it became what God could do through me. I see it all as very spiritual.
Allison Howell: Well, compare yourself for us today to the woman who designed that space for the head coach of the Tennessee Titans. How are you different?
Melinda Perry: I can’t believe what has happened with this business.
Allison Howell: It seems like it’s sort of surprising to you, Melinda.
Melinda Perry: It is. I was on the phone with my client this morning. We were trying to pick out the color of the concrete he wanted in his patio. And he goes, “I gotta go.” He goes, “I’m going to be on The Tonight Show tonight.” And I’m like, “What?” I said, “What are you doing?” He goes, “Well, I’m a guest on The Tonight Show.” I’m like, “What? Are you a movie star?” And he goes, “Well, yeah, I’m on some TV show.” And I’m like, “What in the world am I doing in this world?” So, it just always baffles me.
Allison Howell: You didn’t even know that?
Melinda Perry: No. No, I didn’t know it.
Allison Howell: That’s just great.
Melinda Perry: Yeah, so it’s just humbling to think what a privilege I get to do what I get to do.
Allison Howell: What are some of the biggest decisions or turning points you faced as an entrepreneur that you think have changed you?
Melinda Perry: My partner Margaret has been in and out of the business and I’m praying that she will come back. She has a really difficult son who’s disabled, severely disabled. She would love to be back in the business. So that’s a turning point we would love to make together.
Allison Howell: Okay, it seems to me like you’re a fairly flexible person. I mean, you’re talking about an employee who you’d like to be able to give the business to at some point, you have a partner who’s in and out. I mean, it seems like you are not trying to control this thing. I am like, I want my business to do this and that and this yesterday. How do you live like this, Melinda?
Melinda Perry: I don’t know. I don’t know. I just, I have peace.
Allison Howell: You have peace.
Melinda Perry: I don’t know.
Allison Howell: Well may we all have more peace like you.
Melinda Perry: Well, I’m sure in other ways I don’t but for some reason the business I hold loosely because it’s all a gift. So, I may be no help to y’all.
Allison Howell: Well, I think you’re inspiring in lots of ways. You’re doing beautiful work. You’re creating beauty in the middle of nowhere, out of nothing, which is something so many people in this room aspire to do. And you’re doing it with a lot of peace. Tell us some of the milestones or moments in your business that you’ve truly celebrated. What are you most proud of?
Melinda Perry: It was about a million and a half dollar project on a lake and it turned out really, really pretty. So, I was proud of that one.
Allison Howell: Okay, walk us through what parts of the project like that you touch. So, you design it and then you hand off parts, you design it and then you are there with a shovel or you design it and your crew is there with a shovel? Are you doing electric work to get the lighting in? Are you putting in the pond? Like, what parts are you touching and what parts are you not touching?
Melinda Perry: I designed it all. We totally tore out. There was a pool there. We just leveled everything. And so, we did that all with my skid steer. And then we moved the garage, moved the driveway. And then we started building from the deck down. And they wanted, they were big. wine people, wanted lots of entertainment spaces. So we built, the first level was for the outside grill. Second level was for a seating area. The next level was for the fire pit. And then you walk down some steps. Then we made a new garage down below and a pool house. So, it was a big project. So, we did everything above with all the stonework and all the above. I drew the plans for the contractor to build the garage and pool house. And then we hired a pool contractor. So, I didn’t do the pool and I oversaw the contractor who built the pool house and garage.
Allison Howell: Okay.
Melinda Perry: And because we excavated the original pool, we had to make sure, because we were building on top of it the garage. I didn’t want it to fold in once we built the new garage on top. We had to do a lot of work to fix that.
Allison Howell: Just, let’s back up for a minute. You were 54 when you started this business and you started this business by playing around in some dirt in your backyard and now you’re doing multimillion dollar jobs where you’re demoing and doing multilevel production in lake houses and building buildings. That feels like a jump, right? I mean, you didn’t jump, jump, you kind of gradually got there.
Melinda Perry: Well, I’m sure you all are doing the same thing, right?
Allison Howell: But it’s kind of an interesting thing to think, like that’s not what you imagined yourself doing.
Melinda Perry: No, Heaven’s no. Heaven’s no. I retired, I retired when I moved from California. So, it’s totally different, but it’s so fun. I don’t know what I’d be doing if I wasn’t doing this.
Allison Howell: And take me back before this, you weren’t doing creative work like this before?
Melinda Perry: No, I was working in the office. Boring.
Allison Howell: It’s just so exciting to me to think that we can kind of live so many different chapters in our lives and they can all be so diverse from one another and surprising, right?
Melinda Perry: Right. You’d never know what’s going to be ahead of you guys. You know, don’t give up until you die. Don’t give up.
Allison Howell: Yeah. Well, what brings you joy right now in your business?
Melinda Perry: Oh, my husband does, we just, you know, we’ve been married 38 years, and it’s such a privilege to be married to such a good man. That doesn’t always happen, so he brings me joy. My partner does so many things too. I’m very grateful, just over the moon grateful.
Allison Howell: That’s wonderful. Well, I have a few lightning round questions to kind of finish up our interview here. Think of the best employee you have and describe them to us in three words or less.
Melinda Perry: Hard-working, honest, joyful.
Allison Howell: What is an activity you do to spark creativity when you’re worn out?
Melinda Perry: Do y’all know Zinio? I learned it in the UK. It’s a platform, and you can pull magazines from all around the world into it, and then just it, you know, downloads these magazines. So, I have design magazines from all around the world. So, if we’re watching TV or doing something. I’ll just flip through it really easily, rather than get a bunch of magazines. It’s just really nice to have it on the iPad. Zinio, Z-I-N-I-O.
Allison Howell: Great. What is a book that you’d recommend?
Melinda Perry: Right now, it’s kind of a kid’s book, but it’s really good. It’s called “Mythmakers.” This isn’t a creative book, but it’s the story of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis became friends and their friendship, and because they were myth writers, their story of becoming friends.
Allison Howell: Who is one person who inspires you and why?
Melinda Perry: Andrew Peterson, I don’t know if you know his music, but he’s a client and just a dearest friend. Humility, approachable, lovely.
Allison Howell: What should I plant in my front yard that I won’t kill?
Melinda Perry: A holly bush.
Allison Howell: Okay. Okay, so my final question is, what are you enjoying most about your business right now?
Melinda Perry: I guess the diversity, from an Asian garden to a rewilding garden to some Cobra Kai movie star garden.
Allison Howell: Wow.
Melinda Perry: So, the diversity.
Allison Howell: Yeah, it really is diverse. That’s fantastic.
Allison Howell: Thank you, Allison. You’ve done… isn’t she doing a great job at this conference?
Allison Howell: Thank you so much. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for joining us for this season of The Trunk Show with RW Elephant. We would love to be part of your rental adventures, if we aren’t already. Start your free trial of our mighty software at rwelephant.com. You won’t just gain an easy way to keep track of your rental items and orders; we’re really here to walk with you through the triumphs and challenges. We’re rooting for you, and we want nothing but success for you and your event rental business. Happy renting!
